Talk:Monkey Kung-Fu
Rename First, "Kung Fu" is not hypenated. Second, the proper terminology is "Monkey Style kung fu", yes, "fung fu" is typically un-capped when "Style" is used because "kung fu" or wushu is an all-encompasing term and only becomes capped when discussing a specific style and being used in place of "Style". Love Robin (talk) 20:48, January 25, 2013 (UTC) Is this needed? I really question if this is needed? First, is it ever stated in the show that the Mystical Monkey power gives one an understanding of Monkey kung fu? Or is this just fan supposition because we see Ron start fighting better after gaining the MMP? Finally, if we are not really sure that Ron is using Monkey kung fu, then what other characters in the series besides Monkey Fist are even canonically stated to know this skill? Mknopp (talk) 22:28, January 25, 2013 (UTC) Canonically stated, none. It *is* reasonable for Yamanouchi, or at least a few individuals to know it. Especially Sensei, after all they brought Ron to the school for the purpose of indoctrinating him into further training of his skills. Plus there is bad blood history between them and Fiske. Yet canonically ''stated as teaching Monkey, no. Though they *are* steeped hip-deep in MMP; Lotus Blade, founded by MMP wielder Toshimiru, Sensei's mystical magic, etc. As a BTW, Monkey cannot be one of Kim's 16 styles as she did not recognize it either while fighting Ninja-Fiske or when Larry used the proper name. Now, as for keeping it, *I* am of a mind to keep it, either as its own page or merged with the MMP page. For one thing, I want to see ''Tai Shing Pek Kwar (and variant spellings) properly understood for what it is: the *''title of a methodology school* which teaches TWO different styles because its founding Grandmaster knew and decided to teach both styles under "one roof" (sort of like Surf & Turf or Chicken & Waffles). ''Tai Shing is Monkey (lit. "Monkey Fist"). Love Robin (talk) 00:19, January 26, 2013 (UTC) Ignoring for a second the absurdity of a Japanese *ninja* school teaching a Chinese martial art in no way related to ninjitsu and founded by a person who wears what appears to be samurai armor, the virtual antithesis of the ninja. I mean seriously, if the school was founded by a master of Monkey Kung Fu why isn't it more like a Shaolin monastery school? If it was founded by a samurai why doesn't it focus more on a kenjutsu style of martial art? How in the heck did kung fu lead to ninjitsu? It is like they were brainstorming this and someone said, "Chinese... Japanese... What's the difference?" It is a little bit insulting how culturally ignorant these snafus are. However, that is neither here nor there at the moment. Yes, it is reasonable that some of the people seen on the show would have some understanding of it. However, that could be said of virtually any skill. And the very fact that it *is* a real world skill with full articles on sites like Wikipedia just makes me feel stronger about the fact that we don't need one here. The articles on Monkey Fist and Toshimiru should talk about it and link to wikipedia, where I am sure the article will mention that it is two schools and all that. Also, while Tai Shing Pek Kwar is coincidentally linked to MMP there really isn't any hard evidence that they are truly combined other than people who have a penchant for things monkey, like Monkey kung fu, end up with the MMP. As for the people of Yamanouchi necessarily knowing Monkey kung fu. It is possible that they do because of their founder knowing it, but when you get right down to it, they come straight out and say that they are a *ninja* school, which means that they teach ninjitsu, not Monkey kung fu. Although their school could combine some monkey into their ninjitsu. As for their steeping in MMP, that is because of their link to Toshimiru. And the bad blood with Monkey Fist is likely because they have monkey artifacts and won't give them to him. Also, concerning Sensei's "magic" abilities, he really doesn't do anything that isn't part of martial arts "magic" in pop culture. There is no reason to automatically assume that it has to do with the MMP, especially when he flat out says that only Ron and Monkey Fist have the MMP. To me, this is just more prevalent fanon, like Jocelyn, Montgomery, etc. That is my two cents on it. Mknopp (talk) 05:28, January 26, 2013 (UTC) Actually, it does indeed make sense that a "ninja" school knows and teaches Chinese arts. First, Ninjitsu is not a martial art, it is the "art of stealth and deception". It is a methodology, a means to use things to kill. A ninja still needs to learn a hand-to-hand or Close Quarters Combat fighting style, to which they are then taught subtle ways to be make them stealthy and more effective with killing. Still, Toshimiru is stated to have carved the mountain in 338AD. That was right in the middle of several decades of Chinese nationalists emigrating from China into Japan where they either fully assimilated over time, or clanned themselves into closed communities. Much like many immigrant communities in America today are closed and insular in much of their lifestyle. I'll point to Jewish communities as a prime example. Now, add to that an ancient Monkey Order which scattered artifacts and themselves across the globe/known world (Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam, etc), and you have a Chinese tribe seeking to hide themselves among the traditions of new nations, while still maintaining a core traditional value, the Path of the Monkey. As for Toshimiru's garb depicted on his statue… have you any idea how long it would take one man (probably legend hyperbole and not as literal as it has been retold down the generations), even with mystical powers and a magic sword, to carve a place in a mountain top? At least months (tis a cartoon), although I subscribe to years. Years of living and not wishing to stand out among the native population any further than being Han Chinese and thus easily recognized by Japanese as outsiders, would see him adopting local wear and armor (possibly as mystical and morph-able as the Lotus Blade). I say Han peoples because they are the largest Chinese ethnic group (largest in China and the World, accounting for 1/5 of the total human race), plus fully fits the prophetic theme of "The Han" Mystical Weapon. Indeed, the Han people are alleged to be descendants of divinity (the Yellow Emperor), which also leaves hooks for Mystical Powers as well as a link to the Monkey King Son Goku…). It also explains why Fiske wears a cheungsam instead of a Japanese gi. In addition, certain old traditional Han garb bears a striking resemblance to ninja wear AND miko garb, so easy transition there as well as easy native confusion. ALL pure supposition as applied to KP, and my personal fanon, yes. I'm just saying it is not at all as absurd as you might initially believe. Although I have no doubt the writers thought as you said, and that this is but another and yet *strong* case of "accidental continuity". Love Robin (talk) 08:22, January 26, 2013 (UTC) While I agree with most of what you say, from what I have seen, been told, and read. It is incorrect to say that ninjutsu is not a martial art. And even a cursory search of the web proves that false. Now, you are correct that in the beginning it was a combination of several different techniques combined with spying skills. However, after that foundation it seems to have formed into its own martial art, picking and choosing from it foundation to make its own style. Which means that it is very likely that Tohimiru's monkey kung fu could have formed a basis of Yamanouchi's ninjutsu, but that isn't the same as saying that they practice monkey kung fu. And while this is interesting, and what I would like see in the talk pages moving forward. Right now we still need to determine if this article should exist at all or if the information could be merged into other articles. First, I think that it is misleading to say that Ron knows monkey kung fu. There is no canonical proof that he knows it. Many fans simply assumed that the MMP magically taught him monkey kung fu, but is there really any proof of this? What do we really see Ron doing after he gets the MMP? He moves faster and more gracefully. He is able to leap to great heights, although he has been shown to be capable of making some very amazing leaps even without the MMP. I simply don't see a reason for us to have this page. Is there some reason that I am missing? Is there something different about Monkey kung fu in KP than in reality? Mknopp (talk) 15:46, January 26, 2013 (UTC)